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What do you all think about that? Nathan Jones: Yeah, you get to chapter 19 and all of sudden the Church is in Heaven.

Reagan: The focus of the first 3 chapters is on the Church. Reagan: And suddenly no mention of the Church, it mentions Saints, well is that the Church?

Dennis Pollock: Well clearly there are believers throughout the Tribulation. Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our forum about the book of Revelation.

Fellas, let me ask you this question is the book of Revelation in chronological order? Gary Fisher: I think it is. Reagan: I think I would say that in general, overall it is in chronological order, but I think that in the book of Revelation there are both flashbacks, and flash forwards.

Dennis Pollock: My answer would be yes and no. In general yes, but there are parenthesis where you have God inserting a whole concept.

You have the parenthesis in Revelation 13 where He talks about the beast and how he gets his start and who his worker is. Well the Antichrist shows up a long time before Revelation 13 but God just takes one vision.

Reagan: Well there is almost a rhythm where the Lord will talk about these judgments that are coming upon the earth and they build and they build and the terror becomes increasing and then all of sudden it just cuts off and there is a parenthesis where He encourages the reader to look forward to the end, we are going to win in the end, the saints are going to come out victorious and then He will pick up the narrative again and start talking about another tribulation.

Sometimes there is a look backwards for example in Revelation 13 he looks back to the birth of Jesus and starts talking about that.

Reagan: We are used to flashbacks in modern fiction writing, what we are not used to are flash forwards because God knows what is going to happen in the future He can flash forward and talk about it.

And we need those throughout Revelation. Reagan: Now one of the areas in the book of Revelation where it has been the most speculation has to do with chapter 7 where it talks about , people.

Dennis Pollock: And of course probably almost all Jews, well not all but most Jews would not be able to tell you what tribe they are from, but God knows He has excellent record keeping in heaven.

So it would be no problem at all for Him to choose from different tribes and raise up these individuals.

Dennis Pollock: One thing you have to remember is that God is a communicator, I mean He knows how to communicate and it would be foolish for him to write a book out so mystical, so bizarre, so highly symbolic that nobody could get anything out of it.

It would be like you inviting me to come on this program and I spoke fluent Russian the entire time. Gary Fisher: There is another dynamic being mentioned here and those , from the 12 tribes of Israel can bring to mind something that God has operated in the past.

What happens in the enterprise of preaching the Word of God when the Holy Spirit falls entirely on a Jewish person?

Where would we be without the Apostle Paul? Or some of the other Jewish prophets. When the Holy Spirit gets involved in the Jewish person then the enterprise of reaching people goes into a hyper gear.

There is going to , of these guys. Reagan: Well that reminds me of a conversation I had one time with Zola Levitt who has gone on to be with the Lord now but he was the leading Messianic Jew here in the United States.

Who do you think they are going to be? Nathan Jones: Well there are a few candidates obviously. Most people say Elijah because Elijah was the forerunner of Christ, all though I think Jesus pretty much cleared up that Elijah the forerunner really was John the Baptist.

It talks about possibly Moses that he might have been raptured, but we read in Joel that he did die, so he is iffy. Enoch was raptured from the earth so we have 2 guys in the Old Testament Elijah and Enoch who were both raptured.

One represents Israel, Elijah, and one Enoch he was a Gentile, before there were even Jews so he could represent that.

Another theory is that it is just 2 people who are alive at that time period who are gifted like the , and have a special ministry.

They have the ability to shut up the rain, they can call down fire. Reagan: Yeah, it is like a Christmas in the middle of the Tribulation, people exchange gifts they are so happy over the killing of these two guys who have been the conscious of the world during this horrible time.

Reagan: Well, the Jews believe that too, you know when they hold the Passover meal they always have an extra chair for Elijah the prophet because they know he is going to come back in the end times.

Reagan: Ok, let me ask you this question another area of great mystery is the number which people are going to have on their hand or their forehead in order to buy or sell.

Why ? What is the symbolism of that? Dennis Pollock: Well the one clue that is given is John describes it as the number of a man.

Paul said that the Antichrist will show himself in the Temple of God, that he is God. So basically what you have is a man acting as God, Satan inhabiting him.

Satan has always wanted really 2 things, one is power, and the other is worship. And in the Antichrist he will have it, he will have power for a very brief time over the whole world.

And he will have worship and he will force that worship on all apart from those who put their faith in Christ will give him that worship.

Reagan: So the Antichrist will be a type of the Messiah. Reagan: The false prophet will be a type of the Holy Spirit.

Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our forum on the book of Revelation. Fellas, is there anything in the Book of Revelation that you do not understand?

To me one of the simple things that I would love to know what it really means to reign with Christ. Dennis Pollock: A lot of times when people talk about our eternity their idea is you go to Heaven and you sing non-stop forever.

And I have to be honest Dave that sounds a little boring to me. I mean, I love worship, I enjoy worship praising the Lord, but really?

But just what does that mean? Who will we reign over? Will there be other worlds that will involved?

There are so many questions. Gary Fisher: No, absolutely not. And I take great comfort in that because the Bible says that we are looking through a glass darkly.

Gary Fisher: But one of the things that fascinates me in the book of Revelation is in chapter 22 where it says the tree of life is placed there in Jerusalem.

Gary Fisher: Been placed there at the end of the Millennium and it says that the leaves on the trees are for the healing of the nations.

Wait a minute I thought the healing of the nations has already taken place. Gary Fisher: And it talks about dogs outside and all that kind of stuff.

Reagan: That is my number 1 question. You know I look through a mirror darkly and I have questions and number 1 on the list is who are these nations who appear to be outside the New Jerusalem on the New Earth?

What about you Nathan? Nathan Jones: Like for instance the 6 trumpet judgments, these demonic locusts that come out in the world and they described as heads of lions, and mouths of fire, and smoke and sulfur.

Are those people we are taking about, or are they demons? And why do they look like animals? I mean there are all sorts of imagery in that the Bible gives us but not always a definition.

But I get more and more understanding the longer I read, the longer I study, the more I dig because I pray for that understanding based on that verse.

Gary Fisher: I absolutely concur. I was fascinated by that verse years ago when I first started studying Revelation and it occurred to me one day and I heard this so many times blessed is he who reads.

Reagan: Let me ask you this. When you began to study the book of Revelation as a neophyte just beginning to really get into, it what was the most amazing thing that you discovered in it?

What surprised you the most? Gary Fisher: For me the Jewishness that is involved in it, all the quotes from the Old Testament, the Hebrew scriptures.

Reagan: Well it has more quotations from the Old Testament than any other book. Reagan: Yeah, you know that actually applies to the whole New Testament because Jewish people were told if they read the New Testament they will sin and they are told to never read the New Testament.

And yet when they do read it the thing that amazes them the most it is so Jewish from beginning to end, the Gospels everything.

Reagan: How about you Dennis anything that surprised you? Dennis Pollock: Well there have been a couple of surprises down through the years.

One of them that I think very few Christians even today really get is just how evangelical the book of Revelation is.

A lot of people see it as mystical, esoteric, bizarre, written for mystical, esoteric, bizarre people, and of not very practical use.

And certainly not much related to the idea of receiving Christ. But you find Jesus all over the book. For example the Lamb of God that term you find it four times referring to Jesus outside of Revelation.

You find it 28 times in the book of Revelation. You can hardly turn a page of what you are reading about the Lamb of God. You find an angel going out preaching the everlasting gospel.

Reagan: Nathan what about you? Anything surprising? I mean this life is so little and eternity is so forever. Reagan: Which means we will have intimate fellowship with Him.

That we are going to spend eternity in an ethereal place called Heaven floating around on clouds playing harps. Reagan: Did you have something you wanted to add?

Gary Fisher: I did. Something that fascinates me still about the book of Revelation is the two pictures of Jesus in Revelation, He is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and yet He is also a Lamb.

Gary Fisher: And we know lambs as being gentle and that kind of stuff. Can you share what your website address is so people can reach you please?

Gary Fisher: Mine would be lionofjudahministry. Reagan: Thanks, guys and hey, could we just sum up this program by one sentence.

What is the message of the book of Revelation? Gary Fisher: Jesus is going to judge, and Jesus is going to reign. Reagan: Amen, hallelujah.

It did not help. Let us change our conclusion radically: The fifth trumpet of Revelation 9 represents the rise and recognition of AIDS in the twentieth century.

How did this help the seven churches of Asia to know this? Why would Christ prepare them for this? How does this little fact help us beyond the text of Revelation 9?

How was the lesson expanded, enlightened and benefited? It is not. The lesson simply is not helped. The only thing that could come out of this is that the one speculating is seen as insightful, scholarly and impressive to admirers and possibly expand their fan base and book sales.

In all three cases in our game nothing was added that was of any real value. There are plenty of prophecies in the Bible that require no speculation.

Most people would never be convinced by speculation as well-meaning as it may be. There are many scriptures where we are given the prophecy and then latter the fulfillment in time.

What we see in our game is that in all three cases Revelation 9 is conveniently fitted with any available historical event yet none of them benefit the original lesson of the text.

All three conclusions are speculation. Any conclusion as to a specific historical happening described by Revelation 9 is conjecture and assumption.

There must be proof and there is none. If we were intended to know the identities of these events we would have been told by scripture.

Is it possible that Revelation 9 was given with no one event in mind? Is it possible that the lesson is in a similar line and purpose as the parable in Luke ?

We simply need to look for the message rather than force-fit a point from history. We can skim the surface for the message or we can plunge deep for the message.

But conjecture does not reveal the message ever. The keys to understanding scripture has always been found in other scripture. This is not a knew idea.

The Bible works progressively to prepare us for the next book or set of books. The answer to the mystery of Malachi is found in Matthew , and also in Luke And he will turn The hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.

There can be no doubt that through the years some people would understand that Malachi could not possibly be referring to the literal Elijah.

Elijah the Tishbite who was introduced in 1 Kings 17 was no longer on the earth and left his prophetic duties to Elisha years before Malachi was born.

There would have been plenty of discussions as to the meaning of this verse. Would Elijah return or is this prophesying about a person who would be a type of Elijah.

Could it be that Elijah would show back up? Who would recognize him if he did? In Matthew Jesus asks a question.

That is interesting. Jesus did not claim to be Elijah. His name was not Elijah everyone would have know that. He was born in their time and a relatively young man at that.

One would expect that Elijah the Tishbite would just show up the same way as he left. Those who believed Jesus was Elijah obviously did not expect the literal Elijah the Tishbite to return to the earth.

But they did understand that someone like Elijah — perhaps same demeanor, same courage, similar bearing — would arrive. The problem is that through the centuries no one could have known who Malachi was writing about until Gabriel returned to the earth.

Then the answer is given to the man who would become the father of John the Baptist. Gabriel speaks of John the Baptist.

He says that John would be in the spirit and power of Elijah. Now the answer is given to Zacharias the priest through Gabriel.

How far did this information go? There is no knowing but when we get to Matthew 11 Jesus identifies who John is to a large crowd. In Matthew 17 His disciples did not know.

God provides the answers, methods and the principles to understand His words. This is a prophetic devise. Revelation will continue in the established patterns set by earlier scripture.

The book of Revelation uses the same devise. It can employ names in the identical way as types or allusions. The Bible uses a vocabulary unique to itself this will be discussed in more details in a future article.

In Revelation 2 there are three names used as types: Balaam, Balak and Jezebel. To someone ignorant of the Bible these names would be meaningless and therefore the passage is misunderstood.

The names are used as types. The name Jezebel carries a meaning only from inside the Bible. If Revelation had not used a name like Jezebel but rather used a name unknown in any biblical text such as Gertrude then it would be obvious that the Bible was not using the name as a type since the type had not been defined.

The Bible brought out an established term in an established method to describe a false teaching found in Pergamos.

Revelation will do this sort of thing repeatedly from a wide range of literary devises. The Bible is filled with a host of elements: figures of speech, components of logical, literary devices, literary arts, etc.

It has demonstrated this through 1, years of writers. It utilizes these elements in such a way usually in progressive teaching as to reveal their meaning, purpose and proper usage.

This is just a beginning list of elements found in the Bible. The Bible is truly the master and ultimate teacher.

It presents a devise, solves the devise sometimes in multiple ways by showing how it is to be used correctly and also that it has been used incorrectly by some.

Then when we get to the last book — Revelation — it brings out these devises expecting us to know how to handle them to find the message nested inside.

Though Revelation does not use all the elements above it does utilize multiple element in its text. It does not seem to implement any new devise absent from the rest of the Bible.

Each book or section of the Bible prepares us for the next to come. The Bible has prepared us for its last book which brings out what we should have learned in the first 65 books.

To the unskilled and untrained the message of Revelation remains hidden in plain sight. You must be logged in to post a comment.

In this short passage Paul writes to Timothy that all scripture is: Directly from God word for word Perfect instruction Everything necessary to make one complete in all that is good All sufficient — one needs nothing beyond the Bible for spiritual life This brings us to the conclusion that the Bible needs no outside help.

Overcome Revelation , Be faithful unto death Revelation , Though everything seems out of control in reality God is in complete control. God can and will use an endless array of methods to turn man back to Him.

Or he may use any means necessary to punish man. The faithful are known by God and rewarded Revelation The wicked are punished by God Let us consider that if the seven churches of Asia could not have known the secrets of every detail in Revelation then neither can we.

Now let us look at Revelation for a comparison. This is a completely different situation. Leave a Reply Cancel reply You must be logged in to post a comment.

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